包子，不得不说的话

我为枪狂

憋了很久了，本来想着年纪也这么大了，还是少点火气的好，可论坛现在的一些现状，实在是看不下去了，有些斑竹盛气凌人的态度先不说，有些潜规则实在是不近人情，新手提问稍有差池，立马关禁闭，我想问问诸位，你到一个新论坛是不是都把论坛规则从头到尾看仔细了？并且都能记住了。安全的确是重要，我们可说是经历了太多的风雨，但这种近似打压人气的规则，我认为是不可取的，毕竟大家都是从无知懵懂的阶段过来的。
对于提问，动不动就是要别人去搜索，即使搜索的到，人家还没搞清楚，这样也不能提问了，未免生硬得不近人情，并且有些问题，根本就是没定论的，尚且属于可商榷的状态，也不允许提问，那和一言堂有什么区别？

我为枪狂

我建议有些人好好看看别的论坛上对C2是怎么评价的，众口砾金，集毁销骨。虽然说众口难调，不可能让C2人见人爱，但残酷的现状是几乎到了毁誉参半的境地，让我们这些老家伙汗颜，想参合说几句好话吧，回头想想，实在让人提不起底气来。
有时候真的很伤感，以前有人攻击C2，我可以理直气壮的死磕，可现在，对C2有微词的太多，而且说的并非无理，实在是无从“理论”。
想想实在是悲哀，一个内地响当当的WG网站，居然有那么多的“敌意”，这和包子的为人是很不相称的，而且这些“敌意”据我观察并不是利益冲突使然，仅仅是个潜规则造成的，令人唏嘘。

[ 本帖最后由 我为枪狂 于 2005-7-11 00:07 编辑 ]

胭脂奴

combat2000发展到了今天，估计其影响力远远超过了创始者们的初衷，已经成为所有军品爱好者的共同财富!应该肩负起净化国内WG的使命，以自身强大的影响力潜移默化的改变和引导新人树立正确的观念，而不是把他们据之门外或者是推到那些藏污纳垢的论坛，随时变成一颗定时炸弹。唇亡齿寒的道理值得三思。
C2关闭的这些日子，在别的论坛里看到的那些东西令人触目惊心！

宝宝熊

一些纪律的执行的确过于严格。但我觉得，这是事实，但不是问题的主流。  在外面说C2K坏话的人。无非有两类。其一，是C2K的竞争者。其二，是被C2K处理过的同好。

第一类，矛盾是不可能调和的。元宝是这行的元老，C2K也算是最出名的网络商，树大招风，遭到同业攻击，并不意外。尤其是处于网络这样一个鱼龙混杂的地方。

第二类，正如胭脂奴所说，外面触目惊心。为什么C2K不会触目惊心？就是因为C2K严肃处理一切违纪行为，从未手软。被处理过的，究竟有几个人反思过自己？他们都认为自己没错，错的是C2K。


尽管如此，我还是非常认同“我为枪狂”的担忧。但正所谓众口铄金积毁销骨的，说坏话的人太多毕竟不是好事。

所以，我觉得，对标题不清晰不严谨等小毛病的帖子，应以教育为主。而对谈论不该谈论的话题的，则应该坚持从严处理。

我为枪狂

宝宝熊说的很好，纪律严明一直就是C2的传统，也是C2应该保持下去的特点。
但我感觉现在最大的问题是在纪律执行的过程中出现了偏差，所以给很多人的感觉就是这里成了一言堂，包括当年和我一起上C2的朋友，都有这种感觉。大家很反感的现象就是“搜索”，诚然，有些ABC的问题，的确是让人不胜其烦，也浪费论坛空间，让这样的帖子去自己搜索是正确的。但有些问题，并没结论，或者处于两可之间的，如果还是让当事人去搜索，甚至锁帖子，这种做法很难让人接受。
有很多人是暮名而来的，这个名很可能已经被污染了，那么这种先入为主的观念如果在这里被某些细节所印证，恐怕会无限夸大。大家都知道从商之道里面的1：8效应，长此以往，包子多年积累的名声就很难自保了。

Nemesis

有组织，有纪律 是好事 ，有组织，无纪律，不久矣。
一开始的我，也会对 这种那种规矩 感觉 很不舒服，可是仔细想想，不正是因为有这些规矩，才 能让 C2K 这么多年屹立不倒，是这些规矩 再制约我们很多，可是 却也在规范 我们的论坛，或者有些在保护着我们。
纪律 严明的 C2 才有可能 继续发展下去。
但正如 枪狂 说的 ，这个论坛  有些 左了，不是 方向问题 ，只是 一些 尺度 执行上面 有一些 生硬的作风，当然  我们能理解 各位版主 面对  新手 的 弱智问题 或者 月经贴的 无奈 ，但真的 还请 各位 前辈 多多 包含 ，我们是新手，还需要 一点一滴 的 向 前辈学习 。
同时，也提醒 许多的 新手朋友 ，来 C2 就 要遵守 C2 的规矩，关禁闭也好、封贴也好，不可能是无缘无故的，凡事 多从自己身上找 问题，不要 动不动  就抱着 受委屈的心态  要 和 哪位 版主 玩儿命，不客气的说一句，C2 不是 别人逼你来的，自己来的，向别人请教问题，就不要 把自己 摆在 大爷的位置，事事找茬，何必呢，来这里 的，都是同志，都是为了 共同的爱好而来 ，万事以和为贵才是正道！

元宝

老大说得有道理，这么多年了，你的性格我很清楚，不到事情真的到了很严重的地步你是不会吭声的。

自从开店一来，就一直做井底蛙了。外面的世界很少了解，外面的评价也从来没有去留意。

但是我希望老大能体谅的就是：

我真的是没有时间去好好管理论坛了。从当初的十多个人到现在的一万多人，单单靠我和麻爪两个人是管不过来的，生活的压力，工作的压力，也同样造成我们没有办法去钻研技术问题帮广大的网友来解决各种疑难问题。这样必然要依靠众多的版主来帮忙管理论坛。

我不是把责任推卸到版主身上或者是指责版主们的工作，反过来，我对他们是无条件支持的，无论会造成什么样的局面我都会支持他们。

说回来，所有版主都是有正职工作的，每天能抽空上来管理论坛，回答问题，可都是凭自己爱好义务工作啊，我真的没有办法作出任何要求了。更何况他们管理上的操作都是按照我的要求去做的，要有意见，应该冲我来的。

版主，管理员，每天能上网的时间也就是4、5个小时，这些时间要用来做管理工作之外，还要让他们去回答一些千篇一律的问题，那还有时间去帮助那些真正碰到问题的人吗？老大，说句不恭的话，你不做版主还真的不知道这个版主的累人啊。

说到安全性的问题。我跟老大你讲件事情，就是这次服务器托管的问题，本来，谈好国内一个骨干点的主机托管，才是500多RMB一个月，100M的线路给我一个人用。但是前思后想，还是把服务器托管到香港去了，10M独享，一个月要1600港币啊，我图啥？不就图个安全嘛。正如老大所言，C2在外树敌不少，如果我还有什么把柄给别人抓住的话，网站可是说关掉就关掉的，这样，我损失，大家也少了个地方去。

而且，说实在的，老大一楼的帖子我真的是不敢认同。的确，我承认，现在的论坛规矩是多了，要求是严格了，但是，这些都是必须的啊。我和麻爪真是受不了论坛有一段时间的种种问题，才下辣手整顿的。论坛的注册协议，新用户上来的收到第一个悄悄都是论坛的规定。所有板块都有置顶的须知，我帮每一个新用户注册都提醒他们一定要看论坛须知，以免违反纪律。那。。。。。总不能说他没看有关规定而可以不受处理吧？这.......唉。。。


顶撞老大这么久，我讲讲我的解决方案吧。。

我在真正的关禁闭和正常用户区增加了一个守行为组别，除了不能回帖之外，其他功能跟正常用户一样的。下限是-50分，而版主们处理，最多扣分只能扣20分，犯错误还有机会。

然后，我对版主的管理操作增加了一个限制，就是所有的管理动作必须要有理由同时通知作者，这个是新论坛程序的功能，不知道能不能用，嘿嘿。。

目前能解决的，暂时只有这个办法了。

对了，老大，上次你定的那两个东东还要不要？怎么就没有下文了涅？都发霉了。。HOHO。。。

我为枪狂

可能我没说清楚，不是说规矩多了不好，而是说这个规矩的度怎么把握，不要太生硬，只要不是涉及原则的问题，处理的时候人性化点，别让事主太难堪。
不过已经看到你修改了，可喜可贺。呵呵……
别的也帮不了你什么忙，也就剩在网上罗嗦了，别见怪哟。

我为枪狂

原帖由 胭脂奴 于 2005-7-11 15:11 发表
combat2000发展到了今天，估计其影响力远远超过了创始者们的初衷，已经成为所有军品爱好者的共同财富!应该肩负起净化国内WG的使命，以自身强大的影响力潜移默化的改变和引导新人树立正确的观念，而不是把他们据之 ...

这位兄弟说的太好了，真的是有必要树立一个净化的WG论坛的榜样出来，用包子的魅力，论坛的影响来造就一股好的风气。
这个可能太高调，太理想化，但周围真的是太可怕了，动不动就是CO2乱飞，加大威力的论调横行，可以说是泛滥，真的是怕呀！

元宝

原帖由 我为枪狂 于 2005-7-11 23:27 发表
可能我没说清楚，不是说规矩多了不好，而是说这个规矩的度怎么把握，不要太生硬，只要不是涉及原则的问题，处理的时候人性化点，别让事主太难堪。
不过已经看到你修改了，可喜可贺。呵呵……
别的也帮不了你什么 ...

老大，真的很感激你这番话，我会跟版主们商量，处理犯规问题的时候尽量人性话，正所谓法律不外乎人情。。。我会跟版主们多交流的了。

以后有什么意见一定要讲出来啊，不然，我们当局者迷，犯错误都不知道的。

vmax

很中肯,值得大家好好思量

zhangxiaozha

我同意楼上所说的所有意见，我初到论坛，可以说是什么都不懂，论坛的规矩全部都看过，但是还多地方实在不是用搜索能够可以给我们这些新人解答，但是来C2也有几百天的时间了，对自己的知识了解的不能说相当好，但是从过去比较，连金身都不知道是什么强了许多，一些帖子看玩后，说真的，里面的知识可以帮人简单的修一些枪内的小问题！论坛的存在对自己是真的很有用！初到论坛，发帖子问问题，过一天回来看帖子，心里报着很高兴的态度想问题能够解决了，但是一看，善于用搜索，结果真的，心里简直一下掉进了深渊，当初觉得是我自己不对，到现在我还觉得自己不能发那种跟论坛差不多的帖子，要不然又会被人说！！！！！！！
    我觉得新人毕竟是新手，他们要是懂的多，就不会来论坛问问题解决，而且初到论坛，他们对论坛也不是太了解是个什么情况，所以我觉得你们这些玩这么长时间的老手照顾一下新人，第一次见面，印象是最重要的！所以大家包括我自己，好好想想帖子的问题！1万多人，可以找那些时间在论坛长的人来当一些管理员，来管理，帮斑竹分担一下麻烦！

redleader

对于一些常见问题或是月经贴，我认为应对的办法最好还是把一些相关内容的贴子整理好之后放入对应的精华区。这样再有新手问出这样的问题，我们这样没什么水平的老人至少可以把相应的贴子的链接告诉他们，既算帮了忙，又不至于花费太大的力气。

论坛的搜索功能虽然很有用，但是有些搜到内容却是互相矛盾的，因为这些感受来自不同使用者，大家的认知度会有不同，往往反倒把新手弄得无所适从。

所以，我认为，对于新手，单纯的管理还是不够的，还要加以引导，通过人性化的措施来让他们学到相应的知识，而这来自于平时的积累。如果象绿洲老大写的“手狗选择篇”那样的综合性文章多一些的话，新人肯定会少花力气学到很多实用的东东。

jiangpig

这帖子不错 刚看见 枪老大 俺还是赞同包子的做法DI 我觉得老大提的意见也是对的 我只是觉得在执行与不执行的选择中还是应该执行并且遵守 现在C2的管理偏严 但相对其他论坛这里的气氛是最好的 我想这是公认的 我认为这与包子麻手严格要求有直接关系 一些新人或者说我自己去其他论坛也很少看坛子的置顶规则 但这绝不是我或者新人可以违规的借口 毕竟我们有规则或者人家有规则 那违法了被处罚也是应当的 不服不行的 那被处罚之后就说C2如何如何 斑竹如何如何了 我想这是个人偏激的问题

俺一直不争取当斑竹也确实是考虑到管理所需要的时间精力的消耗 我个人很难承受 所以除了没事多发发帖子 不管有用没用的吧 其他也没对论坛做什么太多的贡献 斑竹不好当 还要老大多理解 我觉得C2还是有C2的风格 毕竟现在1W7Q多人注册 将近2W了快 人多嘴咋 什么人都有 呵呵

老大 多理解吧 我想我们这些老梆子 在外面遇到这样的帖子 也会去解释下的 是吧 你比我UID都高 哈哈

ksc

嗯~呼吁一下诸位版主在举起权利的利剑前可以先警告一下对方。

记得当初包子个赐与我超版权仗时说过：“权利大了也就意味着责任大了要慎重！”我一直紧记此言，我可以豪不留情的批评或责骂当事人，但我会给他改正的机会或申诉的权利。

金属外壳

其实有些时候斑竹们都是很想把问题都整理汇总的
像绿洲写的气狗选择指南，我自己也整理了bb狗的拆卸指南，这些帖子在论坛上挂着，就差全都置顶了，可是有几个人认真看的
可是本来是举一反三的问题，却只会坐在那里等人来喂，稍微变一点就不知道该怎么做，就差让人上门帮他搞定了
我觉得授人以鱼不如授人以渔，我宁可扮黑脸让新人去搜索，逼着他们去学习，也不愿天天喂一帮饭来张口的家伙
如果说自己没有琢磨狗的这种热情，这种人不玩wg也罢

元宝

原帖由 金属外壳 于 2005-7-22 23:15 发表
其实有些时候斑竹们都是很想把问题都整理汇总的
像绿洲写的气狗选择指南，我自己也整理了bb狗的拆卸指南，这些帖子在论坛上挂着，就差全都置顶了，可是有几个人认真看的
可是本来是举一反三的问题，却只会坐在那 ...

说得好啊，就是“等人来喂”，我之所以严格要求就是考虑到你和绿洲两位回答月经帖太累。。。

王大雨

WG本身就是纪律性活动，一个好的WG团队，纪律肯定是第一性的。在什么堂口玩，就要守什么堂口的规矩，因为这是你自己的选择。当然，每个人都有不吊堂口纪律的权利，不吊可以不玩，不用结怨结仇，否则就很没意思了。的确看到有人有问题张口就来，根本就是连搜都没搜一下，比如有人还在问老马的M14什么时候上市，如果用搜索，只需敲入“m14”就可以知道答案，我真的很理解版主的不厌其烦的苦心了。

当然，有兄弟在搜索之后，觉得还有问题不明白，请教一下版主，那就辛苦一下版主做个耐心解答了。总之，大家伙都是奔同一兴趣而来，还是相互体谅为好。

金属外壳

其实不是不许提问，只是希望新人提出的问题明确，有针对性
比如说狗坏了，可以先根据型号及症状搜索老贴，找到可能的原因和解决方法，尝试排除，如果不能确定或者排除不了，再来问大家，大家回答起来也有地放矢，问题很容易解决
但是一上来就一句“我的狗打不响了”，一条狗那么多零件，打不响的毛病多了去了，你让大家怎么帮忙

easycompany

我觉得这个过程就好比爬山，高手已经到了山顶，看见菜鸟们还在山脚，下去把他们拉上来，不可能，只能在山顶喊告诉他们怎么走，哪里哪里有自己碰到的危险和障碍，让他们规避，沿着一条比较容易和正确的道路上来，不过上山的路不止一条，高手走过的可能只是其一，条条大路通罗马嘛，高手站在顶峰，总结自己的经验教训，授之以人，也有可能把自己框在一个框子里面了，看到出格的新手不免要着急要呵斥，其实大可不必，通过别人的经验得到的永远不如自己实践得到的多，获得别人的经验走自己的路才是最好的方式。

rotoruaboy

在我看来，求得“民乐”就难再求“乐民”。我本人承认管理方式肯定有不当的地方，这是不可避免的，大家都只是人类而已，注定会出错，更难免会犯死性子，我本人就是一个代表。刚上任的时候出过不少岔子，虽然几块老板子们私下里有X我，但是在C2大环境下还是支持我的工作。后来过了点时间开始慢慢适应，也有了自己的一套方法，人可以不正经，但是办的事不能偏。

人的名，树的影。楼主大PP名号一亮出来说什么底气也够足。能来跟我们侃一通的，首先是心底还看得起C2，把元宝当个人物，所以来不管是点点顽窍，还是唇枪舌剑，相信大家都会接受这样有建设性的建议。只是话说回来，当圣贤一辈子到头也是死，做妓女一辈子到头也是死。有的人虽然一样来批评指点，而且也占着些道理，但是纯粹是为了达到某些个人目的为初衷。C2成立最初相信并不是为了服务万民，而是受益志同道合的这么一小群，直到今天我也很肯定来C2晃的即使开始说的是类似的腔调，但是一旦有些大爷稍有一点不满意，就兴师问罪起来，这样恐怕很难跟“志同道合”占边。这么些日子里，C2的名已经立下，到现在是否要转变方针改为迎合大众口味而求存亡或是取他人口中那丝赞扬？

大PP的话对我触动很大，原来自己很懒得去和人理论些什么，现在倒唠叨起来，嘿嘿估计主要也是因为过去几个星期医院住的发毛连个说话的人都难找，现在不吐不快。如果用户很多都是像前面元宝说的“等人来喂”，那我也可保证本人必然知无不答，但是“喂”过了之后他们是否会理解我们也不过是在尽自己一分力而已。出去店铺买东西赶上人家下班关门，难道“喂”累了知会他一声此处闭门请找别家他也要把过失算在我们头上？

诚然大PP的观点弥补了我思想里很多的不足，以后务必更加耐心对待用户。今天在这说了点心里话，不求有功，只求无过。

大怪

枪狂兄这是本着强烈的主人翁精神在提意见啊！难得类。。。。

我这个版主其实不算太勤快的了。。。因为

战术版算比较轻松的了啊！哈哈～～～

处理帖子问题我的原则：不是很过分的，不是有意违规的，我不会很严肃处理的。

对待新人要本着：教育为主！！的原则。。。。

回想自己作为新手来到论坛的时候吧。。。
那时的心情多么激动！找到组织的那份冲动心情！！
呵呵。。。遥想当年春衫薄。。。
被宝哥怎么非礼都无怨无悔。。。。的那份执著！

相信，大家都不会不记得吧。。。
想起老一辈无产阶级革命家的“吨吨教诲”，感怀颇深。。。言犹在耳！

理解新人。。。帮助新人。。教育新人。。。

但是执行纪律一定不可以手软！呵呵。。。。

有些帖子可以用冷处理方法。。。。
日子久了自然埋了。。我就会刷掉它。。。。再说，
版主没空回，不见得坛子上这么多人都没空啊。。。见过有喜欢挖坟的人哦。。。还不少！
这也是论坛里的一份力量！！靠的是那份热情和支持啊。。。。

我对有些新人说得最多的话就是：不要让自己养成勤于动嘴，懒得动脑的坏习惯！（其实我自己也有一点诶。。哈哈）

tibot

我来C2k一年多了，注册也有十个月了，也被删过三四个水帖。
但我还是喜欢在这里转悠，比起国内的一些坛子，这里专业很多，没那么多铜臭味。
从刚开始的不懂，到慢慢也可以给新手们一些建议，回答一些简单的问题，个人还是觉得很充实。
对于管理，个人认为各位斑竹做得不错，松紧有度。一般帮助新人，也很热情。
乱世用重典，毕竟国内的环境并不理想。为了让大家可以长久地享受WG的乐趣，我认为管理严格是很值的。
对于老大多花钱，把坛子建在香港的做法，个人表示感谢和认同。
我和几个朋友的WG坛子也放到了海峡对面，不为别的，就是安全第一。

3031036

俺是一个新新新人  俺非常喜欢在C2个各版上到处溜达  俺也非常喜欢用搜索功能   
俺只发过一个帖子  是询问警星的真铁托能否装在GPM4上    当时没留意使用的真铁托图片上面有别的销售网站的地址水印  后来看版规发现自己违规了  虽然没有谁提醒我也没有谁处罚我（也许是还没来得及处罚，也许是斑竹们看到是新新新人很宽容）  但是我立刻自觉的把图片连接拿掉了

看到这个帖子我有种小小感动   我曾经认识一个网站注册人数16万的网站站长（非WG）  聊天时问及他的网站的某版最近如何如何  他说---“你说的什么版？我好久都没去过论坛了。网站现在大了，有的版创建到现在我看都没看过一眼  都是斑竹们在管理.....”相比之下，C2的老大们的态度让人佩服。

本人菜鸟一个  最初了解到有电狗这个东西忘记是在哪里了  当我想买一把M4A1的时候  我胡乱比较了好久选中了ICS   在我已经取出银子准备买的第2天我通过了C2注册   然后我搜索再搜索  发现ICS长远来看不是我想要的东西
后来买了新版GP   要是没有C2   我恐怕已经买了ICS  

说了这么多  绝对不是新人来拍马屁混脸熟  因为没必要  我是菜鸟收藏派  外观好出BB就满足的人  我只觉得看了这个帖子有感触  我喜欢C2  我喜欢你们的认真严谨  我很想和你们一样有一天变成高手  虽然我现在都绝对不敢拆枪

痱子

相信大部分玩家都是理性的.新人一开始急切的心情我们也能理解.相信大家都会了解包子和其他斑竹的良苦用心.

风林火山

我是新人，但上来了就喜欢了。也希望c2越办越好。但我知道有很多人注册了一次后就不来了，我本人在一些其他的网站上也干过。我想提个建议各位斑竹参考，是不是可以设定期限多少时间内一次也没上的话就取消原来的注册呢？比如一年。
如有想法不成熟的地方，表笑我

ArQ

我觉得一个论坛要发展的好就必须有一个和谐稳定的氛围。C2开了那么多年，有那么多忠实的粉丝，有那么高的学术权威性，的确是很不容易。 然而，不断成长的C2也遇到了不少的麻烦。对于这些麻烦，应该分开考虑。

一方面是外因： 正如楼上各位所说，树大招风。C2办的如此红红火火势必遭来某些恶意竞争对手的嫉妒，毁誉之词便由此而生了。这点我们不怕，身正不怕影子斜，让他们说去吧。。。 而宝哥把服务器安在香港，真是明智之举。恶意竞争者也只有干瞪眼的分了。

另一方面就是内因了： 的确，这里有些"潜规则"实在是不近人情。我也被斑竹处罚过，这一点深有体会。当我觉得我无大过错，并队斑竹的惩罚提出异议时，得到的回应是"规则就是规则";"规矩就是这样，只能你去适应他";"每个版主有自己的管理原则，这是现状"。 顿时就感到很郁闷。。。甚至觉得有点“体制化"的感觉。体制化一方面在巩固自己的价值体系，一方面使得人们越来越依赖于这套体系，从而使得体制化更象一个有着思维的硬壳。所有的行为和思想都要被禁锢在这个壳内，一旦越界，不仅要受到硬壳的碰伤，同时也会受到其他体制化的同类的攻击。

我认为，规则本来就是人定的，处理问题应更加灵活一点，不要太死板。不要只想着惩罚这个手段，而应以理服人(屡教不改者除外)。现在都提倡以人为本，人性化是必不可少的。对于一些小问题，不要动不动就扣分禁闭。对有些事，不要负责过头了，还是睁个眼闭个眼，尽管可能导致网络资源的浪费，但是自然也能少许多不满，总的来说还是合算的。一些小问题，给个警告，只要改正就行了吗。还有，千万别用“规则就是这样”来敷衍，一点说服力也没有。 我觉得这些也是气走一些朋友的原因吧。

各位老大有各位老大的苦衷。这是作为旁观者的我提出的一点小小看法，仅供参考。

[ 本帖最后由 ArQ 于 2006-7-24 16:03 编辑 ]

ksc

老板请收声,你说的全对,我已经还你100分了!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!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ksc

有种悲哀叫"回火"

我的悲哀,你的悲哀,世人的悲哀!

回火的后果是严重的!

我在也不骂人了!

[ 本帖最后由 ksc 于 2006-7-25 00:10 编辑 ]

zhigangd2005

首先为老大们开诚布公的胸襟和办好论坛的诚意致敬！！！

我在各大论坛里潜水也有年头了，但一直把C2当作真正的家，因为我认为C2的方向一定使C2成为了国内最有前途的论坛。因为C2以技术为主导的特点，不光避免了乱七八糟的生意买卖，更重要的是研究技术的风气必然会使狗友的注意力从CO2、大威力等危害WG的邪门歪道上转到正途上。

看了老大们提出的问题，觉得问题的根源似乎在于超版的负担太重，所以才有一步一步到今天这样多和细的规矩，似乎有些是无奈之举。我觉得似乎可以从更积极的方向上寻求解决办法。C2的会员如此之多，人多口杂，超版们要维持版规和日常管理的负担已经非常繁重了，如果还要负责解决技术问题和处理月经帖，确实太为难了，这一点上我非常理解超版们。我推测就是因为超版如此重的工作负担，于是出现了对违规过严的一些处理方式。

那么我们能不能从职责上就减轻超版们的负担，而不是提高对会员的要求呢？

我有这样的假设：不妨仅仅让超版们履行和一般论坛版主一样的维持版规的责任，不把解决技术问题的担子压给他们。尽管超版们都是高手，确实是C2朋友们之福。但事实上，即使超版们全部时间和精力投入答疑，恐怕也未必能让所有求助者获得答案（根本上还是靠营造互助的论坛风气，让更多的老手一起来带新手）。因为此时超版们处于一个两难的境地：既要节约时间来答疑，就要提高对会员提问的要求，压缩月经帖和低级问题；提高了发帖的要求，就会导致超版们处理更多的锁贴、删贴，如此将恶性循环的增加超版的工作量，使他们顾此失彼。

所以我觉得将超版们答疑的担子卸掉后，有诸多好处：
超版可以专注与维持版规和处理真正对论坛有害的争议，
对发帖的要求可以放松一点，因为会有更多人来答疑，不至于会挫伤新手的积极性，
超版可以有精力集中帮助大家研究有价值的技术问题，真正发挥超版们高手的价值。

那么答疑的担子交给谁呢？
我觉得首先要靠超版引导和做榜样给大家（量不在多，不要影响版务管理），使论坛形成互助的风气，使会员中的老手也有耐心和兴趣帮助新手，而不是“善用搜索”或只言片语的对待求助者。相信如果能做好这一点，对消除外界对C2的误解也大有帮助。

其次不知是否可以酌情在一些区设一些副版主或版主助理之类的，他们是有技术和热诚的会员，负责一般答疑，在论坛里出现技术问题时可以向超版提醒和转达超版的意见。对这类助手，可以给予适当的权限，或征得超版的同意后行使权限。

助手由各区的超版来选择，为避免混乱他们也只在各个区内行使职责而不能跨区。助手在超版的监督下工作，助手工作不力的超版也可以决定换人。

这样一来，超版可以专心处理版务和高难技术问题，超版助手可以提供一般性技术帮助，也多了一双眼睛协助超版监督版务。那么对会员发帖的含金量就不必要求太高，新人也不会觉得门槛高了。我想矛盾就会有一定缓解。

以上的设想主要是希望可以腾出更多人手，来分别满足会员不同层次上的需求，使论坛更人性化，赢得更多的人气和会员。斗胆提出来这些，也不知是否符合论坛的实际，如有不当之处请老大们不要见怪！

[ 本帖最后由 zhigangd2005 于 2006-7-25 01:44 编辑 ]

末三

偶是新人
乱说两句

论坛人多就是好事吗?

就象MOP

从当年的精英大杂烩 强人达人漫天飞

到现在的小P孩标题党横行

一个版一半是广告

如今的MOP偶不上了

虽然它的人气爆棚 老板赚翻



真心希望C2K的论坛人气冷点点 人心静点点 广告少点点 包子兄能坚持现在的风格和尺

度久点点


说到底 C2K的论坛 包子是贴钱的 斑竹们是贴精力的

所以大家有养分

所以众斑竹能牛X

顾客是上帝 那是顾客付钱的时候

白送的时候 送的人就是上帝的上帝


PS:偶来这里没少挨砖 尤其是X大
横竖是说了 干脆874一下

     然而 偶所有的有关狗的知识 除了亲身实践之外
全部来自这里 也尤其是X大
真心253一下