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标题: 请教：.45英寸GAP和ACP弹与达姆弹有什么区别？ [打印本页]

作者: Deutschland 时间: 2004-11-22 02:02
标题: 请教：.45英寸GAP和ACP弹与达姆弹有什么区别？
达姆弹是弹头尖端没有包覆而露出铅心的，已经被禁用了。
为什么今天美国还有很多类似的子弹？
如果他们不是达姆弹，那请问这样的子弹需要什么样的改造？
他们与达姆弹有什么区别？

GAP和ACP的.45手枪子弹。

[ Last edited by Deutschland on 2004-11-22 at 02:23 ]

作者: dboy 时间: 2004-11-22 08:58
当年DUM-DUM厂出弹尖露铅弹才叫达姆弹。膨胀性弹头被海牙公约禁止在军事用途上使用，但该公约对民用没有约束力，所以许多猎人或警察都使用JHP弹

作者: Deutschland 时间: 2004-11-22 12:30
呵呵，Danke schön~

感谢D总解答~

可以不可以说现在西方（也可能是美国）叫的soft point软头弹都是达姆弹呢？

呵呵

...吹毛求疵一下...

[ Last edited by Deutschland on 2004-11-22 at 12:32 ]

作者: dboy 时间: 2004-11-22 14:00
看过一些DUM-DUM弹的图，我觉得比较接近于现在的JHP，而不是SP哦

作者: 麻州獵鹿人 时间: 2004-11-23 00:29
DUM-DUM is closer to today's soft-point, but one can't call today's soft-point DUM-DUM as DUM-DUM refers to the bullet specifically produced from Indian DUM-DUM Arsenal in late 19th century and has already been extinct for more than a century.

作者: rotoruaboy 时间: 2004-11-23 00:34

Originally posted by 麻州獵鹿人 at 2004-11-23 00:29:
DUM-DUM is closer to today's soft-point, but one can't call today's soft-point DUM-DUM as DUM-DUM refers to the bullet specifically produced from Indian DUM-DUM Arsenal in late 19th century and has ...

这个不敢苟同，惠灵顿将军死了多年，当年他设计的惠灵顿靴也都烂了，但是现在的及膝马靴都叫惠灵顿靴

作者: 麻州獵鹿人 时间: 2004-11-23 01:54
Bullet designs are of a plenty today and we commonly distinguish them with at least 2 types of systems:

1. External features
Soft point, JSP, Hollow point, JHP, FMJ, BT, Lead, ...

2. Specific brand/model name
XTP, Silver Tip, H-partition, ...

Dum-Dum was created by scraping off the copper jacket from the tip of the regular 303 British military ball and it didn't fly nor expand well. In other words, Dum-Dum wasn't remotely as effective as today's soft-point designs.

Also, since Dum-Dum is an arsenal name, it falls into the second category (brand/model name) and thus even if it performs similarly to soft-point, we simply can't call all soft-point bullets Dum-Dum.

作者: rotoruaboy 时间: 2004-11-23 02:03

Originally posted by 麻州獵鹿人 at 2004-11-23 01:54:
Bullet designs are of a plenty today and we commonly distinguish them with at least 2 types of systems:

1. External features
Soft point, JSP, Hollow point, JHP, FMJ, BT, Lead, ...

2. Specifi ...

那请问这是某个权威机构的命名规则？我只是看到简氏上面说类似的制式弹丸俗称达姆弹

作者: 麻州獵鹿人 时间: 2004-11-23 02:15
It is from my personal understanding of how the bullet market works.
For instance, Winchester's Black Talon is similar to Hornady's XTP as they are both JHP, but different brands/models with minor differences in construction. Silver Tip is a soft-point in nature with an aluminum cap to protect the soft lead core, but how much difference is it from Power Point? Well, other than the cap, not much.

Btw, what is 简氏? Janes? Could you tell me which Jane's book you read it from?

作者: 麻州獵鹿人 时间: 2004-11-23 02:50
Here is an interesting article about the evolution of 303 British cartridge:

http://www.cybertorpedo.com/afri ... t/303british_01.htm

On page 2 you will find the Dum-Dum introduced between Mk2 and Mk3 and some soldiers file down their Mk2 to resemble Dum-Dum bullet. From then on, there were a few Mk's with hollow point or thin jacketed bullets before Mk7, but these are not considered Dum-Dum as they were not invented in Dum-Dum Arsenal.

I've searched the web and read some pages proclaiming "The term Dum-Dum was used to refer to soft-nose and hollow point bullets". But these sources weren't authoritive and clearly these are misconceptions.

作者: rotoruaboy 时间: 2004-11-23 02:57

Originally posted by 麻州獵鹿人 at 2004-11-23 02:15:
It is from my personal understanding of how the bullet market works.
For instance, Winchester's Black Talon is similar to Hornady's XTP as they are both JHP, but different brands/models with minor ...

应该是在Jane's Infantry Weapons吧，介绍Le Enfield的那一卷

作者: rotoruaboy 时间: 2004-11-23 02:59

Originally posted by 麻州獵鹿人 at 2004-11-23 02:50:
Here is an interesting article about the evolution of 303 British cartridge:

http://www.cybertorpedo.com/afri ... t/303british_01.htm

On page 2 you will find the Dum-D ...

所以说俗称达姆弹又没什么错误，士兵又不是学究，不可能认真研究这些东西的，听到什么名字，大家用起来之后，就成了口头的称呼了

作者: rotoruaboy 时间: 2004-11-23 03:04
标题: 突然想起来印度警察是装备LeEnfield的，也就是说没准他们可能有用达姆哦

作者: 麻州獵鹿人 时间: 2004-11-23 03:14
Here is the definition of Dum-Dum from NRA:

DUM-DUM BULLET
A British military bullet developed in India`s Dum-Dum Arsenal and used on India`s North West Frontier and in the Sudan in 1897 and 1898. It was a jacketed .303 cal. British bullet with the jacket nose left open to expose the lead core in the hope of increasing effectiveness. Improvement was not pursued, for the Hague Convention of 1899 (not the Geneva Convention of 1925, which dealt largely with gas warfare) outlawed such bullets for warfare. Often "dum-dum" is misused as a term for any soft-nosed or hollow- pointed hunting bullet.

http://www.nraila.org//issues/firearmsglossary/

作者: rotoruaboy 时间: 2004-11-23 04:27
标题: 还是觉得一杆子打不翻一船人
毕竟你给的是美国步枪协会的叫法，不代表世界各国也都这么叫，更不代表俗称就是如此，最多是个学名

作者: dboy 时间: 2004-11-23 08:11
哇哈哈，麻大叔跟偶一样，遇上概念性问题就严肃起来啦。

作者: 麻州獵鹿人 时间: 2004-11-23 12:14
後續文章：
http://artofwar.homeip.net/bboard/viewtopic.php?t=1921

作者: rotoruaboy 时间: 2004-11-23 12:37
标题: 还是改变不了本人的看法，或许是英国人死板的很，普遍文化水平“低”吧
所以我接受的信息来看从来都是这么个看法。

但是前前后后麻州找了这么多东西做了这么多调查，很是辛苦，让我长了很多见识。
所以这里谢谢麻州，麻州的学识自然是我辈所望尘莫及的。

作者: Deutschland 时间: 2004-11-23 12:59
呵呵先感谢楼上的解答！
JHP是 Jacket Hollow Point 尖空心弹还好~还好知道。

这个猪的照片N年前就被传过，左右2个弹坑到底是什么区别？

感谢了。

作者: jam 时间: 2004-11-23 13:06
右边的内部都烂了，左边的只是一个洞。

作者: 麻州獵鹿人 时间: 2004-11-23 13:32
rotoruaboy兄，

每個人心中都有一把尺，您接不接受我的想法並不重要。在這裡我只是把我想要說的都說出來，如此而已。

作者: 纽约的冬天 时间: 2004-11-23 14:08
GAP和ACP本身就不一样,GAP是缩小型的ACP

作者: 麻州獵鹿人 时间: 2004-11-23 21:22
GAP: Glock Automatic Pistol
ACP: Automatic Colt Pistol

45ACP是布朗寧在1905年定型的，和45GAP差了近100年。
依我手裝45ACP彈的經驗，低於10gr的火藥量裝下去，大概只有彈殼容量的1/5。
據我猜測，45ACP原來設計可能是兼容黑火藥，不像後來的44MAG是專門裝無煙火藥，而且是滿裝。

因此，想要從45ACP彈殼縮短，而得到更高的威力是輕而易舉的事。

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